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Maximum Cute: How Funko Conquered the Toy World

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Jerry Seinfeld is one of the few still missing. In December 2014, Funko president Brian Mariotti announced his collectibles company had secured a license to produce figures based on NBC’s Seinfeld. Their Vinyl Idolz line, a series of slender, saucer-eyed caricatures, eventually released Cosmo Kramer, David Puddy, Newman, Frank Costanza, Mr. Peterman, and The Soup Nazi.  

No sign of Jerry. “We’re waiting for him to warm up to the idea,” Sean Wilkinson, Funko’s creative director, tells mental_floss. “Maybe we’re not high on his docket,” says the man charged with “cute-ifying” hundreds of characters from film, television, music, video games, and sports.

Seinfeld’s hesitation is a rare example of someone resisting Funko’s charm. From Game of Thrones to Sesame Street to Taxi Driver, the upstart toy company has put its distinctive stamp on almost every major franchise in popular culture, in the process wedging itself into store shelves dominated by giants like Hasbro and Mattel. Funko's Pop! line, a series of highly stylized, vaguely anime-looking figures standing 3.75-inches tall, have become a retail sensation. (Not to mention 75 percent of the company’s total revenue.) Collectors travel hundreds of miles looking for store exclusives and building personal inventories so vast that the squared-off plastic heads often begin to scrape the ceiling.

“I call it the irony of cute,” Wilkinson says of the Pop! appeal. “We can literally do anything. If you’re a fan of it, we have it.”

It’s unprecedented growth for a brand that started by peddling fast food mascots out of a garage in 1998 and now deals with merchandising Goliaths like Disney and Warner Bros. But Funko originally had no ambition to juggle hundreds of licenses or marquee names like Seinfeld. For its founder, the brand's plans didn’t go far beyond making a bobblehead version of Count Chocula.

House of Geekdom via Flickr // CC BY-ND 2.0

What Mike Becker really wanted was a Big Boy. An avid collector of things from his childhood—particularly advertising icons—Becker had his attention drawn to a bobblehead of the fast food mascot for a chain of burger joints popular in the 1960s. (Depending on your region, he was known as Bob’s Big Boy, Frisch’s Big Boy, or any one of a dozen other names.)

Becker saw an original ceramic bobble on eBay for $1000. “For that price, I could just about license it, make it out of PVC, and then everyone who wanted one could have it,” he tells mental_floss.

Based out of the entrepreneurial hub of Redwood, Washington, Becker had already been thinking about getting out of the apparel design business and into manufacturing. He had been to licensing shows, knew some people in the industry, and figured that even if his salary was cut in half, it would be worth it if he was having fun.

Enlisting his friends Wilkinson and Rob Schwartz to assist with design artwork, Becker started Funko in 1998 using $35,000 of his own savings. When he finalized the deal with the Big Boy restaurant, they told him a distributor for the store’s gift shop might want to place an order. The guy wanted 20,000 of them. “I fulfilled the order with pretty much all the money I had left,” Becker says.

When 30 days had passed and Becker hadn’t been paid on the invoice, he called the distributor. “Well, the guy said, 'I can’t pay ya.'"

“What do you mean?” Becker replied.

“I don’t have the money right now. Next week, maybe I can give you five grand.”

It was, Becker says, a rude introduction to the world of licensing. “People went Chapter 11. People skipped out on their bills. People would cut corners.” Boxes of Big Boys idled in Becker's garage. He showed his mother, pointing to them as the reason he had quit his job. “They’re wonderful,” she said. “But no one’s going to want them.”

At the time, bobblehead figurines with spring-loaded heads that would shake and nod like they had a nervous condition were nearing obsolescence. Popular in the 1950s and 1960s, it wasn’t until Major League Baseball teams began promotional giveaways in the late 1990s that they experienced a resurgence. Becker had preceded that by a good six months. It didn’t look like he’d be around to share the wealth.

On a whim, he phoned a contact he had at New Line Cinema to see if any properties were available. There was one: a sequel to 1997's Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery, a send-up of spy films starring Mike Myers, that was due out in 1999.

Becker agreed to a $2500 license fee. He wound up manufacturing and shipping over 100,000 Austin Powers bobbleheads. “That gave us the boost we needed.”

Soon, Becker was putting Funko displays in Sparky’s, a collectibles store at Universal CityWalk. All the surplus Big Boys were diverted there. When they sold out, the manager became a believer. “A lot of retailers go to Universal CityWalk every year,” Becker says. “It was a big deal to have a window display there.”

Funko’s line—which he called Wacky Wobblers—grew to include a wish list of Becker’s childhood favorites: the General Mills cereal mascots (Count Chocula, Franken Berry); Betty Boop; Felix the Cat; Rat Fink. Mr. T, experiencing a resurgence in popularity thanks to his 1-800-Collect commercials, signed on and became Funko’s unofficial cheerleader. “He’d go to children’s hospitals and ask for cases of bobbleheads," Becker says. "He’d show up for appearances just to support us. He’s an incredible guy.”

After several years of niche marketing, Funko was fielding offers from bobble-crazy sports teams. It seemed like any licensee’s dream, but Becker wasn’t interested. “Sports Illustrated once called and asked, 'Why not?,'” he says of refusing to make athlete bobbles. “I said, ‘Because I know Betty Boop isn’t going to get a DUI.’ And that’s how I felt. Sports heroes let you down. Cartoons don’t.”

He also rebuffed an opportunity to make Disney merchandise. To Becker, Funko was a way to target a few thousand die-hard fans snapping up a Kool-Aid Man Wacky Wobbler. Dealing with Disney meant more of everything—including supervision. “I love Disney,” he says. “But meeting with them, they wanted to design the packaging. They weren’t sure about the heads being big. I wanted to make my own decisions.”

In 2005, Becker made a big one. He had started Funko to play with his sense of nostalgia. Once he had exhausted the possibilities, he had also exhausted himself. The lure of Disney profits didn’t appeal. “I was just burned out," he says. "And I’m the kind of guy to step over dollars to get to nickels.”

Becker wanted to move on. One day he was playing golf with a friend and collector named Brian Mariotti. The two had gotten friendly after Mariotti called Funko’s office looking for Hanna-Barbera merchandise. Buying the whole company sounded good, too.

The prototypical Funko Pop! figure stands just shy of 4 inches tall. The head, rounded off and block-shaped, takes up roughly half of the toy’s dimensions. The pupils sit far apart, with the nose dipping just below the eye line. Some licensors demand a mouth; other characters don’t seem to look right without one. But in most cases, the Pops subtract any lips or teeth.

Applied to characters of existing charm—Cookie Monster, Daniel LaRusso, Chewbacca—the Funko house style fits like a glove. Dressed over Hannibal Lecter, Jason Voorhees, or a Walking Dead zombie, the Pops become an ironic, infantilized version of a malicious figure. “Hyper-cute,” Wilkinson says. The exact placement of the eyes and their relation to the nose: “The science of cute.”

With the limited market for bobbles, Pop! has become Funko’s signature line, bleeding into major retailers, specialty shops, and mail-order dealers. It was one of several ways Mariotti expanded Funko after taking over from Becker in 2005, though for a time it looked as though it would be disastrous.

Mariotti, Wilkinson, and Schwartz conspired to create the Pop! line after licensor DC Comics thought the company needed a fresh design. Working with influences ranging from Hello Kitty to Etsy-crafted creatures with buttons for eyes, the three of them created a stylized plush product for release in 2009. In 2010, Mariotti debuted a vinyl version of the approach, dubbed Funko Force 2.0, with Batman and Green Lantern exclusives for the San Diego Comic-Con crowd. The response was tepid.

“It was a slow build,” Wilkinson says. Funko’s bobblehead devotees were addicted to that style and didn’t necessarily warm to the Japanese-influenced tweaks. But the company noticed that for every frowning observer who arrived at their booth there was also an unfamiliar face that was charmed by the design.

“We noticed a different kind of crowd coming into the booth,” Wilkinson says. “I think that’s when we realized we had something special.”

The following month, Funko Force 2.0 became Funko Pop!. Sales went from promising to overwhelming when fans of HBO’s Game of Thrones and AMC’s The Walking Dead began to flock toward the line, amused by the irony of a baby-faced Ned Stark with a removable, lopped-off head. “People love The Walking Dead, but don’t necessarily want to put a rotting zombie on their desk at work,” Wilkinson says. HBO further endeared the line to fans when several of the actors were photographed holding their vinyl counterparts.

Fueled by the interest in those shows, sales at Funko doubled from $10 million in 2010 to $20 million in 2012; 2013 brought in $38 million. The addition of Disney and its library of fictional celebrities from Marvel and Lucasfilm further solidified Pops as the next great collecting addiction. Licenses from properties that had barely ever been touched by merchandising further fed the appetite of virtually anyone who has ever gone to a movie or turned on a television. At $9.99, there aren’t many better ways to please a fan of The Breakfast Club than by giving him or her a miniature Judd Nelson, oversized sunglasses hiding his enormous button eyes.

“Over $20,” Wilkinson says, “and you’d have to think about it.”

Ron Cohen has amassed so many Funko items—5000 at last count—that not all of them make it out of the box. “You need somewhere to put the box, too,” he says. “That’s twice as much space.”

A Funko collector since 2002, Cohen runs justanotherfunkoobserver.com, one of many sites devoted to curating Funko’s catalog of pop culture tributes. There are discussions on desired Pops, which chains are getting exclusive variants (metallic, accessorized, glow-in-the-dark), and the occasional insult directed at “flippers,” the opportunists who clear out a store’s inventory to resell at a steep markup online. Mostly, the sites celebrate the inherently low-tech approach of Funko, which prizes nostalgia over expensive toys that talk, move, and get test-marketed into oblivion.

Comments stand a good chance of being seen by Mariotti and other Funko employees. Beginning with Becker, the company has maintained a policy of interactivity, holding annual “Funko Fundays” that gather devotees for toy giveaways and offline socializing. Earlier events were in Las Vegas; today, the 1000 or so attendees converge adjacent to San Diego Comic-Con, where rare Pops are dispensed and amateur designers have an opportunity to make suggestions or show off their wares. It’s not uncommon for Funko to turn to the fan pool to hire talent.

“You get the sense they value your opinion,” Cohen says. “Some ideas to go after licenses come from people in the community. It makes you feel like part of the company.”

It’s getting harder, however, to suggest something Funko hasn’t thought of first: There may be nothing more esoteric than a Stay Puft Marshmallow Man from Ghostbusters burnt to a crisp, a doe-eyed Tony Montana, or a Mr. Monopoly. The company has also successfully gone after rights to render The Beatles, Elvis Presley, and Jimi Hendrix in the Funko house format. Most licensors understand the visual continuity the company’s customers look for; others need some convincing.

“There can be pushback,” Wilkinson says of erasing the mouth. “For human characters, we generally don’t want one.” Other characters wind up looking too bizarre without it. “You look at Grover without a mouth, and you go, ‘Is that really him?’” A few licensors have tried to insist on packaging other than the standard, which features a name and number and stacks for easy storage. They're rebuffed. “The message is: Everything looks the same.”

That can be hard when dealing with nondescript characters like Joey from Friends: a blank-faced male is not readily identifiable. Funko typically adds a familiar accessory—for Joey, his pet duck—to compensate. “You’d also be surprised how much a hairline can capture a character," Wilkinson says. "But the Supernatural guys—is someone going to recognize them in 20 years? Sometimes you wonder.”

Roughly 20 new Pops roll out of the company’s 200,000-square-foot warehouse space in Everett, Washington every month; each winter, the company issues a catalog for retailers previewing the year’s coming releases. Collectors treat it like the Sears Wish Book, poring over additions to existing series and new properties that give them a warm twinge of recognition. That retro chord is a big reason why it’s unlikely Funko will suffer the same fate as Beanie Babies, which couldn’t offer a Doc Brown plush. Today’s cult movie is tomorrow’s childhood memory, even if it takes a decade.

While Pop! remains Funko’s most treasured line, the company has branched out. Tiny figures ride in familiar vehicles like the Batmobile; aside from the Vinyl Idolz, there are the Dorbz, an even more aggressively cute line of rotund heroes; Collector Corps boxes promise Pops and other surprise merchandise to subscribers; and Mike Becker is under the Funko banner once more, supervising the company’s T-shirt line.

Wilkinson has ticked off most of his own personal Pop! projects, like The Fifth Element and Willy Wonka. Of the few major franchises to elude Funko, James Bond remains just out of reach. “It starts and it stops,” Wilkinson says of negotiations. Nintendo is another holdout. “They don’t like seeing their characters altered.” (Among the recently converted: J.K. Rowling, whose Harry Potter is finally in Pop! form after years of rejection. There might be hope for Seinfeld yet.)

Despite its modest footprint in the billion-dollar toy world, Funko has grown large enough to make the notion of collecting everything impossible. Cohen flips through the catalog to see if a specific series has expanded, or if a new one piques his interest, but had to abandon the idea of keeping a spreadsheet of everything. “It’s impossible now,” he says.

Although Cohen tends to keep his Pops in their boxes, he has a friend who takes photographs of Pops in various settings. Snapping Pop! pictures is so common among collectors that Funko has issued four volumes of their photography. Despite their relative immobility, Pops seem to inspire more creativity than simply being stored away to bolster someone’s retirement. In an adult demographic, that counts for a lot.

“You just want to share your fascination with it,” Cohen says. “You should play with your toys.”

 All images courtesy of Funko/Sean Wilkinson unless otherwise noted.

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Here’s Why Bells Are Always Ringing in Trader Joe’s
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Mike Mozart, Flickr // CC BY 2.0

Trader Joe’s has attracted a devoted fan-base by doing things a little differently than your typical grocery store chain. But shoppers may not even realize that the company has done away with this ubiquitous supermarket feature.

As Business Insider recently noted, Trader Joe’s doesn’t use an intercom system. So instead of hearing “clean up in aisle 4” blaring overhead, customers shop to a soundtrack of ringing bells.

The nautical bells, which are situated at each register, are used by employees to communicate with one another. According to the company’s website, “blustery PA systems” didn’t fit the brand, so it borrowed inspiration from the maritime traders of a bygone era and developed its own Morse-like code.

If you hear one ring, that means an additional register needs to be opened. Two rings means that either a cashier or a customer has a question at checkout, and three signals a manager. The code isn’t exactly a secret as it’s available for anyone to find online, but memorizing it will definitely give you bit of intel most patrons don’t have. It can also be used to plan your shopping strategy. If you hear four bells, for instance, that means the store is getting crowded, so you should forget about grabbing that second bottle of Two-Buck Chuck and hustle to the checkout line.

[h/t Business Insider]

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13 Secrets of Professional Naming Consultants
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When it comes to companies and products, names matter. A slick name makes a company sound trendy and cool, while a terrible name can have customers running into the arms of the competition. Unsurprisingly, many companies take the process very seriously, hiring outside naming consultants who either work within creative agencies or at agencies devoted entirely to naming. We got a few to give us the scoop on how their job really works.

1. IT’S NOT JUST A CREATIVE TASK.

“The notion that namers are hippies and poets jotting down names on cocktail napkins couldn’t be farther from the truth,” says Mark Skoultchi, a partner at Catchword, the agency that named the Fitbit Flex and Force and Starbucks’s Refreshers line.

The stakes are just too high for naming to be a purely creative project, because a bad name can break a product. Consider, for example, the major slump in sales ISIS chocolates experienced in 2014 when people began to associate their name with the Islamic State. (The company rebranded itself to Libeert.) And when the AIDS crisis hit in the 1980s, the diet candy company Ayds chose not to change its name, eventually suffering the consequences. (When asked about it, an official from its parent company, Jeffrey Martin, famously snapped, “Let the disease change its name.”) By 1988, the company conceded that the name was hurting sales, and changed it to Diet Ayds. But the product was soon pulled from shelves altogether.

“When you’re naming your kid or nicknaming your car it’s more creative. There aren’t as many consequences,” says Nina Beckhardt, founder and CEO of The Naming Group, a consultancy that works with Chevrolet, Kohler, and Capital One. “But when you’re brand naming, the name you select has to be strategically impeccable. It has to make sense and at least not offend millions of people around the globe.”

2. NAMES CAN’T JUST SOUND GOOD.

Naming isn’t just a subjective choice—really liking a name doesn’t mean it’s a good fit for your company. “People want to get more subjective with it,” Beckhardt says. “They’ll say that name reminds me of my cat or rhymes with such and such. That observation is so enormously unimportant compared with the fact that the name successfully checks all the boxes we created at the beginning.” The point is to find a name that gets across what the company wants to convey, rather than one that every person involved in the naming process loves.

For example, when The Naming Group was working with Capital One to develop their first brand-name rewards credit card, the company had to consider who they were trying to target—travelers. The result was the Venture card, a name with a connotation of adventure and exploration that’s “not right on the nose.”

3. IT HELPS TO HAVE A BACKGROUND IN LINGUISTICS—OR TRADEMARK LAW.

Though naming is essentially an exercise in corporate strategy, naming agencies don’t just employ people with backgrounds in branding and marketing. They also need linguistics experts to help generate names that make sense, have positive connotations in modern usage (i.e. nothing that might have a negative slang meaning), and inspire the associations the company wants to elicit.

Coming up with a name also involves some legal legwork. You can’t name your company or product after something that’s already trademarked. And if you want to expand internationally, the name needs to be available to trademark in other countries as well. That means naming agencies are often looking for people with a background in trademark law.

4. YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH HUNDREDS OF NAMES, IF NOT THOUSANDS.

“Naming is a game of numbers,” Beckhardt says. “You have to have a lot of options.” Even if the potential names sound great, many are bound to run into trademark conflicts or not work in another language.

So before namers get together to present feasible ideas to the clients they’re working with, they come up with hundreds, if not thousands, of potential options. “At Catchword, 200 names is scratching the surface,” Skoultchi says.

5. BUT THE CLIENT WON’T SEE THEM ALL.

When faced with too many options to choose from, people tend to freeze up in what psychologists call “choice overload” [PDF]. Whether you’re talking about choosing between similar items at the grocery store or an endless array of potential product names, it’s overwhelming to consider all the possibilities. Namers take their initial 200 or 1000 ideas and whittle them down to present only the best (and most feasible) options. At Catchword, that means about 50 names.

But namers can also face the opposite challenge. If a client gets too set on a single idea, it blinds them to what might be better options still out there. “For each project I will get and try to get the client attached to a number of different names,” Beckhardt says, rather than looking for “the prince charming” of names.

6. A NAME CAN BE TOO ORIGINAL

The amount of meaning a name communicates lies along a continuum. On the one end, there’s an overly descriptive name. On the other end, there’s so-called “empty vessel” names, which are so far removed from actual words that they come off as meaningless. The ideal name falls somewhere in the middle, but if you end up too far toward the “empty vessel” side, your name will be a target for mockery.

Consider Tribune Publishing, the media company that owns the Chicago Tribune. In 2016, it rebranded as “tronc,” a name derived from the phrase “Tribune online content.” The move was widely mocked, for good reason. In The New York Times, a branding expert said the name “creates an ugliness.” The new name became a black eye for the company rather than a sign of its forward-thinking vision.

Empty vessel names are particularly common in the tech world, but played right, it can work. Google could be considered an empty vessel name, but it does have an origin, albeit one that most people aren’t familiar with. A googol is a huge number—10100—which makes sense within the context of the search engine’s ability to aggregate results from a near-infinite number of sources online.

7. A NAME CAN’T JUST SOUND GOOD IN ENGLISH.

One reason naming agencies need linguists is that unless a company is only marketing its products domestically, the name needs to work in multiple languages. If your product sounds slick in English but means something dirty in Norwegian, you’ve got a problem.

Plenty of companies have found this out the hard way. The Honda Fit was almost the Honda Fitta, but the company changed the name when it realized that “fitta” was slang for female genitalia in Swedish. The company later started calling it the Honda Jazz outside of North America.

Different languages also pronounce certain letters differently, which gets awkward if you’re not careful. “When we’re developing names we have to prepare for those mispronunciations to make sure that isn’t going to affect how people understand the product,” Beckhardt says. In Germany, Vicks sells its products under the name Wick, because the German pronunciation of the original brand name (in which a “v” is pronounced like an “f”) sounds like a slang word for sex.

Even if the name isn’t vulgar, it might have connotations in another language that you don’t want people associating with your product. In Mandarin, Microsoft’s Bing has to go by a different name, because “bing” means disease. Part of the naming process, according to Beckhardt, is “making sure that if we’re naming a skin care product, it doesn’t mean acne in Japanese.” She adds that at one point, while working on a rebranding project, The Naming Group came up with a name that ended up meaning “pubic hair” in another language. (Obviously, that one didn't get presented to the client.)

8. IF YOU DON’T COME UP WITH A FOREIGN NAME, CUSTOMERS MIGHT DO IT FOR YOU.

Famously, when Coca-Cola first started selling its products in China in 1927, it didn’t immediately come up with a new name that made sense in Chinese characters. Instead, shopkeepers transliterated the name Coca-Cola phonetically on their signage, leading to odd meanings like “bite the wax tadpole.” In 1928, Coke registered a Chinese trademark for the Mandarin 可口可乐 (K'o K'ou K'o Lê), which the company translates as “to permit mouth to be able to rejoice.”

9. COMING UP WITH A CHINESE NAME IS ESPECIALLY COMPLICATED.

Foreign companies are eager to expand into China’s growing market, but it’s not as easy as transliterating an American name, like LinkedIn, to Chinese characters. In some cases, companies use Chinese names that sound somewhat like their English equivalent, but in others, they go by names that don’t sound similar at all. “It’s this crazy art form of balancing phonetic similarity and actual meaning,” Beckhardt says.

Labbrand, a consultancy founded in Shanghai, helps American companies come up with names that work for Chinese markets. For LinkedIn’s Chinese name, Labbrand was able to come up with a name that both sounded a bit like the original and still had a meaning in line with the company’s purpose. 领英 (lǐng yīng) means “leading elite.” For other companies, though, it makes more sense to come up with a name that sounds nothing like the American brand, yet has a strategic meaning. For Trip Advisor, Labbrand came up with “猫途鹰 (māo tú yīng)," a combination of the characters for "owl" and "journey"—a reference to the company’s owl logo and its role as a travel site.

Some names, however, are just straight translations. Microsoft is 微软 (weiruan), two characters that literally mean “micro” and “soft.”

10. THERE ISN'T USUALLY AN ‘A-HA’ MOMENT.

“Oftentimes, clients are expecting epiphany, to have an ‘a-ha!’ moment, but those moments are more rare than you think,” Skoultchi says. “It’s not because the name ideas aren't great, it’s because most people have trouble imagining” what the names will sound like in the real world. “Context, visual identity, taglines, copy, and other factors influence our perception of a name and how appealing it is. Imagine just about any modern blockbuster brand, and now imagine it’s just a word on a page, in Helvetica, with little to no marketing support.”

To help customers understand how a name might look in real-world settings, Catchword gives it a slightly jazzier graphic design that’s more representative of what it would look like in the market, adding in potential taglines and ad copy to make it look more realistic.

11. YOU’RE NOT JUST NAMING ONE THING.

The Naming Group, for example, has worked with Capital One, Kohler, and Reebok to come up with names for multiple products, and they've also worked to establish parameters for future names. That's because what you call one product could have implications for your future products—and ideally, the names of different products across a company should work together.

Take the example of Fitbit. The company has a naming style that involves single-syllable, simple English words that are designed to convey something unique about the product. They also had to fit the tiny devices themselves, so length mattered. The name “Flex” went to the first wristband tracker, and the most advanced tracker became “Force.” Later, the first tracker that measured heart rate would become "Charge," and the one designed for high-intensity athletes, "Blaze." All the names have a similar vibe while managing to convey something about the specific device.

As a cautionary tale, imagine a world in which Steve Jobs was allowed to use his preferred name for the iMac, “MacMan.” (Luckily, an ad agency creative director talked him out of it.) Given how the “i” in iMac influenced Apple’s future naming conventions, would there later have been a PodMan and PhoneMan? Choosing the iMac led to a larger branding scheme—the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad—that's instantly recognizable. “The PhoneMan” just wouldn’t have the same ring.

12. COMPANIES OFTEN WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE.

There’s a perception that naming should come from within a company—that if you build a product, you automatically know the best thing to call it. But that’s often not the case. Companies usually don’t employ professional namers on staff and don’t have any set guidelines on how to come up with new names. And it’s often not until the last minute that they realize they need outside help to decide on a great moniker. “It can be so emotional,” Beckhardt explains. “Companies come to you pulling their hair out, [saying] ‘We just can’t decide; we haven’t found it yet.’”

13. IT ONLY TAKES A FEW WEEKS.

Naming something usually doesn’t involve a lightning bolt of inspiration, but neither do companies slave over names for months. According to Beckhardt, the process takes anywhere from four to six weeks, though they can expedite the process if they really need to.

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