‘Greatest Escapes With Arturo Castro’ Episode 13: Tales from the Tower of London

Mental Floss is partnering with FilmNation and iHeartPodcasts to bring you the transcripts for Greatest Escapes, a podcast hosted by Arturo Castro about some of the wildest escape stories across history. In this episode, Jon Barinholtz (American Auto, Chicago Party Aunt) helps Arturo infiltrate the Tower of London in the Elizabethan era, uncovering the tale of John Gerard, a covert priest with an uncanny aptitude for orange juice. Read all the transcripts here.

1. Jon’s Escape
2. Chapter 1: A Real Zoo
3. CHAPTER 2: Pain Points
4. CHAPTER 3: Not My Dad!
5. CHAPTER 4: Commando Priest
6. CHAPTER 5: Juicy Messages
7. CHAPTER 6: Zipline to the Moat
8. CHAPTER 7: Zero Out of Five Stars
9. Outro
10. Credits

Arturo Castro: Ben, can you gimme a little bit of that special thing you recorded for us, please? To get us into the mood?

Ben: Yes, of course.

[“Greensleeves” plays]

Jon Barinholtz: Ooh, little “Greensleeves.”

Arturo: Yes, exactly. Thank you. It’s the only medieval music I learned.

Jon: Yeah, and I know you play the dulcimer too, so …

Arturo: This is Greatest Escapes, a show bringing you the wildest true escape stories of all time. I’m Arturo, and I’m joined by the hilarious writer, actor, producer Jon Barinholtz.

[THEME UP AND PLAYS OUT]

Whoa.

Jon: Nice.

Arturo: Did you know that Ben Chugg created that version of the theme song just for this particular episode?

Jon: Oh, perfect.

Arturo: Yeah. Yeah. So we should only speak in old English is what I’m trying to say. Dude. Welcome to the show. So stoked to have you.

Jon: So happy to be here. I’m an equally big fan of yours and I love escape stories and it’s—it just sounded like so much fun.

Jon’s Escape

Arturo: Jon, do you have a greatest escape?

Jon: I do, and it’s in 2009, right before I moved out to Los Angeles. I’m born and raised in Chicago and I was, I think like a week outta moving to Los Angeles and over the course of a month, there was a string of muggings in the area I lived in in Chicago. In Wrigleyville, and—I do wanna say I love Chicago. It’s an amazing city. I know, like, there’s a perception where it’s very dangerous—and I’m about to tell a story that was—

Arturo: That reinforces that?

Jon: —but it’s … you’re fine. If you go to Chicago, you’re f***ing fine. It’s safe. This was a … a fluke incident.

Three improvisers in the area had gotten blindsided and mugged over the course of like a month. And it was always the same thing. It was like, around 11 o’clock, they were drunk walking home by themselves, and they got mugged, and I knew two of them. And one night I was leaving Improv Olympic, and I luckily wasn’t drunk. I—which is—

Arturo: What time was, was this at more or less?

Jon: At about 10:45. It was like—it was before 11.

Arturo: Ooh. Mugging hour is upon us.

Jon:  Yes, mugging hour was upon us.

Arturo: Yeah.

Jon: And I was walking home and I—I remember I had left my friend Nick at, uh, Improv Olympic. And at the time—do you remember the movie, The Room? It’s like that cult bad movie by Tommy Wiseau?

Arturo: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jon: Like, Franco made a movie on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is 2009. So this movie wasn’t like, widely available yet. There was one DVD, one copy of it, kind of going around the comedy scene in Chicago so people could like, you know, get high and watch it. And my buddy Nick had it and he hadn’t watched it yet.

And I was like, “oh, can I borrow it? I’m gonna borrow the DVD and watch it.” He’s like, “yeah, yeah, fine.” He’s like, “don’t lose it.” I’m like, “I’m not gonna—I’m walking home, I’m gonna watch it. I’m not gonna lose it.”

I turned down my street and I see a guy like walk past me and I just gave him like a, “Hey, what’s up?” And he doesn’t give anything back. And I was like, “Ooh,” like spidey senses went on. I was like, “that’s not good.” So I’m kind of like, looking at him and like, the eyes in the back of my head, like, kind of like, turn a little as he passes me, he didn’t turn around, so I’m OK. And just then outta like my peripheral, I’ll see another guy across the street, like, slowly walking into the street and I was like…

Arturo: Oh.

Jon: “Ooh, OK.” I look back, the other guy’s now turned around. I’m like, “OK, like this is happening.”

Arturo: “I try to say hi to this next guy. I try to say hi to him as well. There was a rampant trying to salute people.” Yeah–

Jon: The next guy was—“there’s rude people in my street tonight.” I just had the feeling right away. I was like, this is happening. And I just started sprinting. I—I cut into the street and start sprinting and I run right into a third guy.

Arturo: No!

Jon: And they had me in like a triangle and I’m like, “f***, they got me.” And like, luckily they’re not holding anything and I’m like, really annoyed. I knew I was moving in a week. They were gonna get my wallet. So, uh, they’re like, “what do you got?” And remember like, in the middle of the street in this triangle amongst them, and I take on my wallet and I just like emptied on the ground and throw it.

There’s like no money in it. I take up my phone, I break it on the ground, and–

Arturo: No! Good for you.

Jon: I’m just, I’m mad. I had a pot pipe on me. I break the pot pipe.

Arturo: Take one last hit like, “hmm. F*** you!”

Jon: I’m holding that DVD of The Room and I’m just—I keep holding that. I was like, “they’re not gonna take this.” And the third guy, he’s like, “what’s that there?” I was like, “It’s a DVD of a really bad movie,” and he’s like, “give it.” I’m like, “Goddammit.” I’m angry.

I give him the DVD. One of the other guys is like trying to pick up my phone—like, what’s left of it—and like … and my wallet and like, all my cards.

And the original guy is like, “come with me.” I’m like, “all right.” I’m just annoyed. He’s just trying to get me away from them. He starts walking me up the sidewalk and he pulls out a f***ing gun.

Arturo: No.

Jon: And I went from being annoyed to being like, “this is how it ends.”

Arturo: Yeah.

Jon: And he turns back to his—to the other two guys and he goes, “f*** it, I’m just gonna cap him.” And as like, that word left his mouth, I was—there was like, a big tree next to me—I was like, a hundred yards down the street. Like I—I had never run so fast. I like—as he said that, and I saw his head was still turned back, I just sprint and I cut in front of the tree. So like, I was out of—he didn’t have like a clear line of sight on me. I don’t think he was gonna shoot me. I think he was just trying to scare me, but I was gone, man. I like—I moved I think like, 50 yards in like, four seconds.

Arturo: Jesus Christ, dude. Good for you. I’m so glad you’re alive.

Jon: Yeah, I got out, I got out. They got away. They got all my sh*t.

Arturo: It’s so weird because after that, crime dropped tremendously because muggers were just obsessed with Tommy Wiseau after that, they were just too busy watching The Room over and over.

Jon: For one year in Chicago, no one got mugged because all these muggers were just—were just watching The Room.

Arturo: They were just like—they just wanted to stop people and be like, “how’s my impression? I did not. I did not hit her. Oh, hi Mark.”

Thanks for sharing that story, and I wanna ask you a question.

Jon: Yes.

Arturo: So when I say orange juice and then I say a prison escape, like … what do you think?

Jon: Orange juice, prison escape. I mean, like … off the top of my head, I imagine like, they made the orange juice acidic and they were able to melt the locks.

Arturo: There we go.

Jon: And I—that’s where my brain would go.

Arturo: OK. No, that’s a good one. OK, let’s see. Let’s see if you’re right. OK, so let’s get into this escape situation. Ben, can I get a little “boom, boom. We’re getting into the escape” thing?

Jon: Law and Order, but like olde English Law and Order.

[Law and Order-esque Stinger]

Jon: Oh, yes yes yes yes.

Arturo: “Right, Gov’ner.” Like, I don’t know. Ben was doing a real, like, “hello, sorry,” accent earlier.

Ben Chugg: “Sorry sir. Yes.”

Arturo: What do you know about, uh, the Tower of London?

Jon: I was just in London in the summer and I took a little boat trip and I think we went past it on—on the river. I just know that it’s … it currently has the, the crown jewels in it, I think?

Arturo: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. No, you nailed it.

Chapter 1: A Real Zoo

Arturo: The Tower of London is known as England’s most infamous historic prison. Right? But it didn’t start out as just a prison. In fact, it started off as a castle, which you can kind of tell by the shape of it, um, and the general castle-y vibe that it has, you know?

Jon: Yeah. Classic castle. Classic castle.

Arturo: Yeah. “It’s giving me castle!” So it was built by the French king William the Conqueror after he, well, you know, conquered England in 1066, was the year.

Jon: Oh, the Battle of Hastings.

Arturo: That’s right, man. Good for you. Um—

Jon: Thank you.

Arturo: —I didn’t know that until this episode actually. Uh, so way to prove that you’re way smarter than the host, Jon. Great. You’re doing great.

Jon: The Battle of Hastings and the Magna Carta are the two dates I—I think I remember. And that’s it.

Arturo: OK. Uh, Ben, take his DVD. Please. Take his f***ing DVD. OK.

So the castle was set up by William the Conqueror, basically as a flex. At the center is the White Tower, which is surrounded by a number of other buildings. Around that is two layers of fortified walls, dotted with towers and gates, surrounded by a moat. All this is next to the river Thames. Paranoid much, buddy?

I personally like, miss moats. You know, like … I thought they were like such a cool thing to have back in the day.

Jon: Honestly, it’s one of those things—like, a lot of stuff from the medieval ages and like, and beyond should have gone away. Uh, but moats should have stayed. Moats—

Arturo: Moats should have stayed. Yeah.

Jon: A great concept. It’s a great concept.

Arturo: Yeah. That torturing people and you know, religious persecution part can go, but give me like, alligators, chomping at the bit, you know?

Jon: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Arturo: “It’s giving me castle!”

So every different tower and wall has its own name, right? Like, Salt Tower, Wardrobe Tower. Cradle Tower, Brick Tower, etc., etc.

Jon: Sure.

Arturo: And altogether the castle is known as the Tower of London. So that’s not f***ing confusing at all. Like why—like is it just—can it just be called like, “the towers of London”?

Jon: Yeah. Yeah. It’s—yeah. Give us a plural.

Arturo: So over time, the various kings of England used it as a royal palace, right? They even made it the royal mint, where they churned out England’s money starting in the 1200s. The uses of the tower even included keeping a large collection of animals inside, which kind of makes it London’s first zoo.

Jon: The Tower of London was like, happening.

Arturo: Yeah. Dude, it was like, popping.

Jon: They made their money. It was a zoo. Amaze—who knew?

Arturo: So in 1235 the king was given some lions, and later in the 1200s came gifts of a polar bear and an African elephant. Imagine how f***ing confused you’d be as a polar bear waking up in the Tower of London, you know?

Jon: Yeah. And—

[Bear noise]

Arturo: Thank you, Ben. That bear sounded confused. It really—you really nailed it.

Jon: “Aroo?”

Arturo: Yeah. “What the f***?” His friends would never believe him. Like, “guys, guys. Bob. Bob. I f***ing fell asleep, right? I was hungover and I woke up surrounded by f***ing people with terrible teeth.”

Jon: “I dunno what the f*** they were saying.”

Arturo: Of course, I’m speaking of the British back then. You guys have excellent teeth now. I’m just saying, all the medieval people.

Jon: Yes, yes, yes. For the most part.

Arturo: Yes, exactly.

So eventually the Tower of London became famous for housing human prisoners. It wasn’t specifically built as a jail, but it ended up being a pretty good, you know, place for keeping people after keeping animals.

Jon: Sure. If you can hold a polar bear, you can hold a person.

Arturo: That’s right.

Jon: People can’t get out there. The bear couldn’t get out.

Arturo: Yeah, that’s right. “I never saw him trying to leave.” Um, the British accent will change periodically throughout the episode, everybody, so please forgive us.

Jon: But it is historically accurate. Like, sometimes we’ll be talking as like … we’ll be cockney a little bit. Sometimes we’ll be going upper crust British. It’ll be—it’ll be very accurate.

Arturo: If—if ever you think that we are, we’re doing a sh*tty British accent, just know that that’s how people spoke back then. OK? And we just are being historically accurate. Thank you very much.

Jon: And there’s no way to—there’s no way for you to prove it out there that we’re being rude, so.

Arturo: So come at me with some audio files from the 1200s and then we’ll talk.

So ironically, though, one of the very first people who was locked up in the Tower of London was able to escape it.

He was not a polar bear. His name was Ranulf Flambard, and he was a French bishop who was charged with embezzlement in the year 1100 and after he was convicted of the crime, he was locked up in the Tower of London. But Flambard was a rich and powerful man, which meant he was given plenty of free rein. Even when he was locked up.

Jon: OK.

Arturo: So he organized a feast for the jailers, presumably–

Jon: Probably had to go the culinary tower.

Arturo: –in the culinary tower. I was gonna say! So Ranulf’s plan started with wines. He had so much wine brought in that it was enough to get all the jailers super sh*t faced. He also had a rope smuggled into the prison inside one of the wine jugs, right? So once everyone else was super smashed, Ranulf was able to use the rope to climb down to the outer wall and escape. So congrats to rich ol’ Ranulf. But his story was only the first escape. I—I like his story though, because it’s a real foreshadowing of the bigger story that we’re telling today, which includes rebel priests, and financial crimes, and smuggling, and orange juice, and incredible rope escapes.

Jon: Yes.

CHAPTER 2: Pain Points

Arturo: So the tower started out as a castle as I’ve told you, but over time it was used more and more as in prison until that basically took over what it was, right? And it actually had a reputation as a place that was very difficult to escape from.

By the 1500s, its reputation was even darker, right? It was known for the torture and execution of most prisoners held inside. There were three main kinds of torture used in the Tower of London at the time. Would you like to know what they were?

Jon: Yeah, I—I could probably guess one of them. Was one of them–

Arturo: Hit me.

Jon: –that table where they—they stretch you out?

Arturo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The rack.

Jon: Yes, the rack.

Arturo: That’s right. The rack. Also, I saw this tweet that somebody was like, “uh, hey, at some point the rack, like at one very brief second, it must feel amazing.” Like, you know–

Jon: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s gotta be a moment where like, “it’s not, honestly, it’s not that bad. I kind of needed this.” And then it goes into, “no, it’s too much!”

Arturo: Yeah. So the rack is the most famous one, and photos of old versions of the rack show that it’s a metal frame with large wooden rollers, right where the ropes were secured.

Now the other ends would be tied to the prisoners’ hands and feet, turning the rolls would pull the ropes and stretch the limbs of the victim, eventually tearing apart their joints. Oh, so f***ed up. Now–

Jon: Not good.

Arturo: Yeah. Next we have the scavenger’s daughter, which was like kind of a cute name for what it actually f***ing did. So this is the opposite. Instead of stretching out the prisoner, it was designed to crush and twist them. OK, so first, it forces the prisoner into a kneeling position and then compresses the chest so that the lungs filled with blood.

Jon: Ugh.

Arturo: Ugh. And then we come to the manacles, right? On the Tower of London website—yeah, they have a website now, so that’s cool—they include a firsthand account of what it was like to be tortured by the manacles. You might say it’s like the rack device, but by gravity. So the prisoner, his name is also John, uh, he wrote that to start, they put his wrists in tight iron rings and ordered him to climb up a short ladder, right? Once he was up at the top, they lifted his arms up above his head and pushed—ooh—an iron bar through the rings. Then they pinned the bar high through the wall and they pulled the ladder. So that left him just hanging by his hands in the air.

So obviously, this stuff is horrible. So why are we talking about it, right? And it’s actually because the escape that we’re talking about today is John’s—the man who was describing the torture.

It’s a story of how even though he was manacled to the wall, John was able to survive what he suffered in the Tower of London, and he was able to get the f*** out of there. So good for John.

Jon: Happy to share a name with—with an escapee.

Arturo: Yeah, John Gerard was his actual name, and in his later years, he wrote down his life story. Which is fortunate for us because he was kind of a badass. Especially if you like Jesuits. Woo.

Jon: Sure. Come on. Ignatius Loyola?

CHAPTER 3: Not My Dad!

Arturo: So John Gerard was born in 1564 in Derbyshire, England, which is like smack dab in the middle of the island, right? The first big event in John’s life happened when he was just 5 years old, cause his dad was arrested and locked in the Tower of London.

Jon: Oh, come on.

Arturo: We’re just gonna barely touch on some of the f***ed up religious politics in England at the time. But what you need to know is that the queen was Elizabeth and she was Protestant and little John Gerard was born into a family of Catholics.

Jon: Sure. Sure.

Arturo: Fortunately for the Gerard family, though, they had friends in really powerful places. Their cousin was attorney general of England, which helps, and he had even helped to defend Elizabeth from other plots and revolts. So he had earned some goodwill with the Crown. You could—so he could call in a favor. So after five years, John’s dad was allowed to return to his family. But even so, the arrest only added to how much John’s Catholic family hated the Protestant queen.

I mean, that makes sense, right? By the time you’re 10 years old, like—your dad’s been locked up in the Tower of London for half your life. Like, how do you feel?

Jon: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Arturo: So John was set on his path, resenting the queen and believing that the Protestants were evil, right? In his teens, John traveled back and forth between England, his home, and France, where he was getting a Catholic education.

On one of these journeys, he and a bunch of other Catholic students were on a ship that was caught in a storm, they were forced to land at the English port of Dover and all the Catholics were arrested and sent to prison in London except for John. So this was his first arrest, and rather than being sent straight to a royal jail, he was sent to a kind of like, rotating house arrest. Like, he was passed around between various Protestants who were supposed to teach him the error of his ways.

Jon: Oh, correct his ways. Yeah. Yeah. OK.

Arturo: Yeah, but what would you prefer? Like a normal prison cell or like a constant parade of people trying to force a religion on you?

Jon: Honestly, give me the prison cell with the other Catholics. If I’m a Catholic, I’m like, “yeah, look, we believe what we’re doing. They don’t believe what we’re doing, but at least we’re together.” Versus like, you have to be in someone’s house and—very Handmaid’s Tale-ish.

Arturo: That’s right. That’s right. They had to be called “Offred” too. It was weird. Um, I—

Jon: Very, very similar.

Arturo: I got something to say about this actually because my family was like, cafeteria Catholic, you know? We were like, “we’ll take that. We’re like, f*** that. No, no, thank you.”

Jon: Yeah.

Arturo: “This judging people for their sexual orientation, go f*** yourself.” “Oh, I love the smell of incense. Yeah, we’ll do that!” You know, that’s sort of like what my Catholic—we never really went to mass, but there was like, the closest sense to our spirituality, I guess, was Catholic. But my—my aunt really wanted me to convert to Born Again Christianity, and they would take me to the youth groups and it would take—and it just—I was just never buying it.

Listen, if that works for you, that’s totally fine. But my caveat against it was that I remember one time one of these f***ing youth groups handed me this pamphlet. It was kind of like a comic book, but basically a comic book was about a kid who didn’t convince his parents to convert to Born Again Christianity. And so then the—the last leaflet was his parents going to hell and the kid like, crying in like, the pit of hell being like, uh, “I could have saved him.”

Jon: That was Marvel, right? That’s the new—

Arturo: Yeah, that was Marvel. So it’s—I’ve actually been cast in it.

Jon: Oh, congratulations!

Arturo: Thank you so much. Um, but I’m just like, you know—and at the time it really f***ed with me. I was like, “oh my God.”

Like, “I—even though I’m not feeling it, should I convert my par–? Like how should I do this?” You know? And—and it just goes to show whatever your version of your, uh, of religion is, like, pushing your f***ing beliefs on anybody for any reason, just seems—it’s torturous, man. You know? Um, so I’m sure a version of that, but way less pleasant, was happening to John.

I love that I tried to make his struggle about me, you know? I was like, “yeah, yeah, yeah, John, he got arrested, a family died, whatever, but I read a comic book”

Jon: “John. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were away from your family for years.”

Arturo: “I read a really ugly comic book.”

So John said that he got this treatment of being passed around the Protestants, uh, only because the queen’s council was friendly to his family. So when he was finally released, John went straight back to France and then went to Rome. Now he studied, he trained, and when John was 24, he finally became a Jesuit like he always wanted. And now that he was a Jesuit, he was determined to head back to England, where he wanted to commit some crimes.

CHAPTER 4: Commando Priest

Arturo: Yeah, yeah. He’s commando priest! This is where he gets activated.

[Dramatic voice] Now when he reached England, John traveled in secret between the houses of wealthy Catholics, where he would carry Catholic relics, give the sacrament, and teach. Sorry to switch it to Telemundo voice there for a second.

Jon: No. No. I was—that was—I was so in it. I was like, “oh my God, something’s happening.”

Arturo: I just realized I can’t keep it up for the entire chapter. So since the Jesuits were banned, um, John constantly had to dodge priest hunters who were on the lookout for Catholic teachers. But John didn’t mind, you know? He said that he was on a divine mission to bring back wandering souls to their maker.

A case could be made that like—and don’t get me wrong, I’m on John’s side on this one—but also, people really picked hills to die on at the time of like: It was all about whose religion was better, right, um, that—that it felt like an ideology fight more than—

Jon: First of all, I didn’t know there were priest hunters. So wild. So wild. But yeah, I think it is. Yeah. It’s, it’s a—it’s a, “I believe this and I’m gonna go spread this” and “no, we believe that’s bad. We believe this other thing and we’re gonna stop you from spreading that thing.”

Arturo: That’s right, yeah, no—

Jon: It’s—

Arturo: —“no, my version of it is better than your version of it.”

Jon: “You guys are like very, very similar. Very similar.”

Arturo: “My saints are cooler than yours are”—like, OK. They’re the same saints. You literally just created a church to—to get divorced.

Jon: All stemmed because, uh, a king, decades ago, wanted to be able to get divorced.

Arturo: What’s it Henry IV? Or Henry V?

Jon: Henry V.

Arturo: Henry V. That’s right.

Carl: It was Henry VIII.

Jon: Henry VIII! Henry VIII!

Arturo: Oh my God. We sounded like such a—also—

Jon: We just blew it.

Arturo: But—but also, like, see how quickly I abandoned my own notion for yours because you spoke with such conviction. You’re like “Henry V” and I was like, “John, I am so sorry” until the God voice had to come and tell us.

Jon: God, it was so embarrassing.

Arturo: Yeah. Also like—how come there’s never been a show about priest hunters? FilmNation, Tory? Let’s make a quick note about what we’re gonna do next.

So, once in 1594, a servant of John’s host betrayed him to the justices of the peace. The house had a secret room that even the servants didn’t know about. Many Catholics did at the time, and gave them the unfortunate name of priest holes.

Jon: Come on.

Arturo: Yup. So John ducked inside a priest hole. Yeah, that’s what they call them. “He was really deep in that priest hole.” And uh, he says that the priest hunters—coming soon to theaters!

Jon: “Priest hole.”

Arturo: “Priest Hunter: Down the Priest Hole.”

Jon: That’s the sequel, that’s the sequel.

Arturo: So they broke down the door and they swarmed the house.

They knew the hiding places were common, so they pounded on the walls and the floors. They left one place unpounded. They pried open roof tiles, and even measured the walls for thickness. And they worked four days without finding John. His hiding spot didn’t show up in their investigation. And that’s because it was actually a cramped space under the chimney. John said that at one point a hunter even climbed down the chimney and tapped on the walls.

Hoo, could you imagine the stress, man? But they didn’t see the doorway into his hiding place. Very, very lucky for John. When they finally left, John climbed out and he ran for his life. He traveled to London, and at first he thought he had gotten away. But the servant who had sold him out the first time … was able to follow him there. What?

Jon: Come on! Leave the guy alone. What are you doing? It’s so hard to travel back then anyway. Like—

Arturo: Like, you’re take—like, you’re like f***ing suffering cholera throughout, man. Like, you’re like—

Jon: Yeah—

Arturo: You know, you’re like—

Jon: —like, you’re tattle-taling as you’re like, coughing up blood.

Arturo: Also, like, how did you not notice there was only one other fire within like the entire vista that you were like, they were like, “oh, it must be somebody not related to me at all.”

So just two weeks after ducking the search party in the country manor, John was caught in the city. The priest hunters arrived at midnight and arrested John at sword point. He was shackled and held in a priest hunter’s own house before being passed from prison to prison, where he was questioned repeatedly. But John wouldn’t give his questioners any answers. So finally, in 1597, after three years, he was sent to the Tower of London.

CHAPTER 5: Juicy Messages

Arturo: Now we’re getting to the main event, right? John Gerard is in the Tower of London where he is locked in the castle’s Salt Tower.

Jon: The Salt Tower?

Arturo: The Salt Tower, yeah. Some people think that maybe they used to keep salt? But we don’t actually know. And by the time of this story, it’s one of the prison towers where people were actually imprisoned. I guess you can say the prisoners were pretty … salty. [laughs] Oh, I am so sorry.

Anyway, on his first night there, John is locked in a cell where he sees a  name scratched on the wall: Henry Walpole.

Jon: OK.

Arturo: When John sees the name, he kind of freaks out because here’s what John knows about Walpole. He was another Catholic priest who had been in prison there. He was tortured 14 times and injured so badly that he lost the use of his hands. Then, he was shipped out to the city of York in the north of England where he was finally executed.

Now, Jon, if you’re John Gerard at this point, how are you feeling?

Jon: Not good, my friend.

Arturo: Not good. Right?

Jon: Like, for like, just like … 14 times—once and get it over with guys, and—you know, oh god. God.

Arturo: God. Yeah. Also that, you know, that like it must be such a horrible feeling of like, the impending torture and death.

Jon: Yes, yes, yes.

Arturo: So John had a pretty good idea of what lies in store for him at the Tower of London, especially because his cousin is now gone. So there’s a new attorney general in England.

Jon: OK, OK.

Arturo: He arrives actually, yeah. The new attorney general actually arrives to interrogate John and runs him through all kinds of political questions. You know, had he been working to overthrow the queen, things like that. Right?

And of course John had been in prison and questioned for three years by this point. And what he said was that he hadn’t been involved in any activities against the government and he also wouldn’t give up the names of any other Catholics.

John says that they led him to the torture room, which is kind of like, they—they led him in a kind of solemn procession with people carrying candles ahead of them through the dark walls. Hoo. Like, what would that sound like, Ben Chugg?

[Ominous sound]

Oh, oh yeah. That’s what it would sound like and nobody, if—refuses to f***ing talk to you.

Jon: No one’s like—“no eye contact. Hey, come on, guys. Give little eye contact.” Just like me walking down my street, I knew something was wrong.

Arturo: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. “You didn’t say hi to me. I know something’s wrong, you’re being rude.”

So he was right about one thing. He got the same torture as Henry Walpole. He was hung from the ceiling by his wrists. Despite the shooting pain across his hands, arms, and chest, John says he didn’t give up any information. He hung that way for hours. At night, he was finally taken down and led back to his cell, but the next day he was hung up again.

He says after just the second day, he couldn’t take much more of the torture, and totally just passed out. After they had taken him down, John came to, and they wedged his mouth open with an iron nail and poured hot water down his throat.

[Water pouring/Man in pain]

Damn, these motherf***ers are brutal. Really? That’s the sound effect that we picked. Jesus Christ guys. “Ow!”

Ben: I’m working on the fly, here. Gimme a break!

Arturo: No, I got you. I got you. It just sounds—it just sounds more like somebody that like didn’t like his food. Like, “Ow!” It just sounds like Christopher Walken f***ing stubbing his toe. “Oww.”

Jon: I’m so—I’m so curious because it was hard to fact check back then in a timely manner, right? So when you’re asked to give up names, couldn’t you out, as like self-preservation, be like, “uh, Tim Nobley and, uh, Chris Waddlesworth.”

Arturo: “And, and—and their address is, well, you go past a pond—”

Jon: “—a left at the fourth tree!”

Arturo: That’s right.

Jon: You know, if they came back and they were like, “we didn’t find ‘em,” like, “oh, I’m sorry. It was the third tree.” And I just—I feel like you could have bought yourself more time to not get tortured.

Arturo: You probably could have, but you know what I find impressive is the fortitude that it takes to be tortured and not give up any names, right?

Jon: Yes, yes, yes.

Arturo: I don’t know about you, dude, but I like you can guilt me into telling you sh*t—like, I am not good at lying.

Jon: I don’t like silence, so if you just asked me the question and looked at me in silence, I would eventually fill that silence with information.

Arturo: If you force me to say hi to you and you don’t say hi back, I’m just gonna give you my life story, you know.

Uh, so after just two days of this, the man overseeing John’s torture resigned the position. Imagine how bad it has to be that the head of torture is just like, “f*** it, I’m out. You guys are f***ing weird.”

Jon: “It’s too much.”

Arturo: “You guys are bad. Yeah. I got in this for the right reasons. It was fun at first, but this is just f***ed up.”

Jon: “The torture game is outta control.”

Arturo: “That’s right guys. It’s—it’s past its point. It’s past its prime. I’m going back to building moats.”

So fortunately he was actually replaced by a kinder soul. The new man gave up the torture and left John in his cell undisturbed.

Now for three weeks, John could barely move his fingers. It was so bad that he even needed help eating. Of course, he wasn’t allowed any visitors during his imprisonment at the tower. That meant it was the jailer himself who had to feed him. The man felt bad for him, you know, and started bringing him things that he asked for from the outside world, like books and money, and eventually, oranges.

Uh, here we go. Here we go. Also, money. Why did he bring money?

Jon: Yeah, what do you need money for? Like what do you—

Arturo: He was an early adopter of crypto. Um, so—

Jon: “Please bring me bitcoin!”

Arturo: So John had noticed that the jailer liked oranges. So when they were delivered to his cell, John shared them with the man, but he also had another idea for them.

So Jon, how the f*** are you gonna escape the infamous prison with the oranges? We already talked about a little acidic thing that you talked about—

Jon: I—yeah, but like, I’m just—I’m so curious. I have no idea. Like, what is he doing?

Arturo: OK, well first, he started collecting orange juice in a small jar, right?

Jon: OK.

Arturo: At night, John practiced exercises with his hands. As the strength came back, he started carving orange peels into rosaries, that he convinced a jailer to deliver them to other Catholic prisoners throughout the tower.

Over the next six months, John slowly executed his plan. He asked for paper to package up his orange peel rosaries, and then eventually—also like, can you imagine some of the prisoners liked them? And others were like, “John, what the f*** is this man? Like what? Like what?”

Jon: “How about a lock pick? Or like—”

Arturo: “How about you send me the orange itself? I’m f***ing hungry, man.”

Jon: “Honestly, I’d rather have your money, even though it means nothing in here. I’d rather have that than oranges.”

Arturo: “Are you bragging that you have so many oranges that you just get to like do arts and crafts with them?” Like, OK.

He eventually asked for some charcoal to write messages to his friends outside the prison. Now, at this point, he was pretty tight with the jailer, so he got everything he asked for.

Jon: His plan is coming together now, like he has, like—he has a plan. I’m just so curious what it is, but it seems like he’s gaining favor in getting everything he wants right now and it’s working for him.

Arturo: Exactly, and that’s where it’s—yeah. Anyway, so the moment of clarity for John Gerard was that alongside the charcoal writing, he also used a toothpick to scrawl invisible words in orange juice.

[Air horn]

Jon: Oh, OK. OK. First of all, I mean, just huge headline there. I didn’t know they had toothpicks back then.

Arturo: That’s right. I was like, “and why didn’t nobody use them? I’ve seen the paintings. You guys are—”

Jon: I was gonna say, they’re—they’re all mangled, like—

Arturo: They—they were just mainly decorative. Mainly decorative. You just wanted people to know that you had ‘em around your house.

Jon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Arturo: John says that this is something that a lot of Catholics were doing to send secret messages. So he was confident that the other Catholics would know what to do when they got his note.

And he was right! John got a package of food back from some of his friends outside the prison. And when he held up the packaging paper to a candle flame, he could see that they had responded with their own orange juice writing!

Jon: Oh my god.

Arturo: The secret channel of communication was open. And it was fresh as f***. That’s right.

CHAPTER 6: Zipline to the Moat

Arturo: The first thing that John and his friends agreed on was that they needed to pay the jailer for these notes, right? John’s Catholic friends started filling the man’s wallet so soon enough he was happily carrying packages of food between them. The whole time John and his friends were working out the details of an escape plot.

So in the spring of 1597, the attorney general questioned John again to prepare for his trial. The interrogation was harsh and it convinced John that he was soon going to be given a public execution.

Jon: Ahh.

Arturo: It was time. John initiated stage one of his plan. He convinced the jailer to let him visit another cell of another Catholic prisoner who was locked up in the Cradle Tower.

Side note, f***ed up name for a tower. Yeah, but OK.

Jon: Very f***ed up.

Arturo: Yeah, it took some serious bribing from John’s friends, but they had paid the jailer enough. He agreed. A few things about this other man: He had been in the Tower of London for 10 years. The cradle tower faced the castle moat and the river beyond that. The man’s cell had a low down—actually, correction—the man’s cell was low down on the outer wall.

Jon: Oh.

Arturo: The cell had the low down on the—that cell really knew what was going down.

Jon: That cell was happening. It knew—it knew who knew who, who wanted what.

Arturo: Right. It was such a gossip. “It’s giving me gossip!”

So when the two of them were together in the man’s cell, they looked out the window and they agreed that if they could get their hands on some rope, they could use it to shimmy down. As long as they had friends on the outside who could pick ’em up and help them with the getaway, they could escape.

Jon: F***ing rope man. Prison breaks still happen today, and I have to imagine rope is a big part of it.

Arturo: Rope doesn’t get enough credit.

Jon: Really, it doesn’t—it doesn’t get enough credit.

Arturo: That’s right. So using the secret orange juice writing, John coordinated the time and the place with his network of Catholic friends outside. Now when the night came, John bribed the jailer—man, this jailer’s just f***ing raking it in—um, to bring him into the other man’s cell.

Once they were locked in together, they used the knife to loosen the stone around the bolt of their cell door and climbed onto the roof overlooking the moat where they waited. The first night on the rooftop though ended in failure.

So John’s friends did arrive in a row boat, but they crashed on the riverbank near the London Bridge and got trapped by the current and almost capsized. One of them even fell into the water and had to be rescued by a crowd of people who gathered when they heard him shouting, really giving away his position —like, “please, I’m trying—”

Jon: Come on.

Arturo: “—trying to get away. I’m trying to get, bring my friend outta jail. Can you—”

Jon: “Please save me so I can—so I can break him out!”

Arturo: That’s right. Fortunately for John, no one suspected they were trying to help the prisoners escape.

They were then even able to get their hands on another boat and come back the very next night. This time, rather than climbing to the roof, John waited in the cell of Cradle Tower. When the boaters pulled up, they secured a rope to the vessel and they tossed the other side to John who tied it up inside the cell. Then the two men started to shimmy down the rope.

Even though John’s hands were still in enormous pain, he was able to take it slow and manage to climb all the way down the rope. He joined his accomplices in the rowboat and they set off down river under the cover of darkness. Their first hiding place was in the outskirts of the city where they switched to horses and disappeared into the countryside.

Jon: Ooh, Ooh.

Arturo: Throwing toothpicks everywhere. “Scavengers, scavengers, scavengers.”

Jon: Toothpicks for all!

CHAPTER 7: Zero Out of Five Stars

Arturo: Once John had escaped, his friends sent someone back to the prison. He told the jailer what had happened and offered to get the man out of the country. Now, when the jailer realized that he would then be executed for letting John escape, he agreed.

He went home, gathered his family, and fled the country using the Catholic underground network to get out. John says that the jailer lived comfortably for the rest of his life on a yearly allowance paid by the Jesuit allies.

Jon: Very cool. I believe John, I—I want to believe him.

Arturo: But that jailer is dead.

Jon: That jailer’s gone.

Arturo: That jailer in his entire family. Yeah. “And sir, so where can we find him?” He’s like, “oh, uh, around the pond. The—the third tree.” Like, you know—

Jon: “Third tree. Pond. Oh no, it was four. It was you. I don’t remember. But he just know that he’s alive and well, and—”

Arturo: “He’s alive, he’s thriving, he’s living his best life!”

As for John, he was able to stay in England for a year, moving between houses of his Catholic friends and keeping a low profile. Would you have the courage of, uh—to do the same thing again after you were arrested the first time?

Jon: No, no. Go to France. Go to go—go somewhere nice. You’re in Europe. Travel. Travel!

Arturo: Find yourself. Eat, pray, love! You got the whole orange peely rosary thing? Go—go make a business. I’m sure there’s a business for it.

So things got even too hot for John in 1605, especially on the fifth of November. That’s right. We’re talking about the Gunpowder Plot when Catholic rebels try to blow up Parliament.

Jon: Remember, remember the 5th of November.

Arturo: Yes. After that, even John got out of England and I guess it was a sign that his mission was over. Now, John was eventually able to slip across the English Channel and escape the reach of the Protestant powers trying to kill him. He made it to the English college in Rome where he lived until his death in 1637. He was 73 years old. Before his death, he wrote a memoir describing his life, his various encounters with priest hunters, his imprisonment in the tower, and his escape.

These days, the Tower of London is super popular with tourists. Like you said, it’s where England’s crown jewels are displayed.

Jon: Yeah.

Arturo: Reviews actually give the castle a four out of five stars on Yelp and TripAdvisor.

Jon: God, these like amazing historic artifacts are just like, just so—

Arturo: They’re like, “not impressed. Not impressed. Not into it. You know, the refreshments weren’t that good. Um—”

Jon: “The tower was kind of cold.”

Arturo: Yeah, that’s right. Also, I don’t think that that’s how John Gerard would’ve like rated his stay. You know, I would’ve loved to read his Yelp review, being like, “um, the staff was friendly, but my goodness, the daytime activities were really hard to swallow.”

Jon: “If I could give zero stars, I would, but it makes me give them one, so I will give one.”

Arturo: One interesting little tidbit though, uh—tower tourism actually started in the 1500s. Today people visit it as a historical prison and torture chamber, and it cost about 30 British pounds to get in. So at least we have the benefit of distance from the brutal past. But in the same years that people were being imprisoned there and tortured inside, others were paying to visit and do a little disaster tourism. Can you believe?

Jon: Oh my god.

Arturo: Can you believe?

Jon: Wild.

Arturo: One account says that in 1639, an aristocrat paid 11 shillings for her tour. Aristocrats, man, They’re like, “oh, isn’t this pleasant? Isn’t this beautiful?” That’s right. “Hello, may I have this dance while these people are–”

Jon: “Yes. Let’s go watch a little torture today.”

Arturo: “That’s positively devilish.”

Outro

Arturo: Um, OK, so to recap: F***ing crazy story. Uh, Jon, visiting torture chambers. Fun, yay, or nay?

Jon: Yeah, contemporaneously with when the people are getting tortured, like no, like—of course not. Present day. Like … yeah. Like, I’ve been to like a couple outside of Rome, uh, old Roman ones and yeah—like, outta curiosity, like yes, but like—not like—

Arturo: Not back then when it’s actively being used as one, right?

Jon: No, no, no. Yes yes yes.

Arturo: The Inquisition museums are so f***ed up.

Jon: Yeah. I mean, to—to bear witness to the crazy stuff, yes.

Arturo: It’s worth it. Yes.

Jon: Yeah.

Arturo: Where can listeners find your work?

Jon: I have a little house, uh, surrounded by a moat. I know I’m on American Auto now. That’s on NBC. Uh, I think you can get it on Peacock. I think we’re off Hulu. We’re done with Hulu. Superstore is—that’s on—that still is on Hulu, I believe. And—and you can also check out the second season of Chicago Party Aunt, on Netflix.

Arturo: Oh, congratulations brother.

Jon: Get your binge in.

Arturo: So would you like to play at, uh, convincing each other that we have to escape this prison, but in the voice of Sean Connery and Nicolas Cage signing off, like—like, let’s escape the spot. So who do you wanna be?

Jon: I’ll—I’ll take … take a little Connery.

Arturo: Yeah, take Connery, right? OK. OK, go ahead. Got it.

“We gotta go now, Connery!”

Jon: “We have to wait until the guard’s asleep, then we can make our move!”

Arturo: “Here’s some orange juice, Sean, what are you gonna do about it?”

Jon: “I’m gonna write a little, little nasty note, uh, and, and slip it past the guard so we can get a help from our friends in the outside.”

Arturo: Oh, fantastic, brother. Thank you. What a pleasure. Thank you so much, Jon. A great honor, brother.

Jon: Buddy, thank you so much. So much fun. You’re so funny.

Arturo: Oh man. What a great time that was.

Credits

Arturo: Greatest Escapes is a production of iHeartRadio and FilmNation Entertainment, in association with Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me, Arturo, Alyssa Martino and Milan Popelka from FilmNation Entertainment, Andrew Chugg and Whitney Donaldson from Gilded Audio, and Dylan Fagan from iHeartRadio.

The show is produced and edited by Carl Nellis and Ben Chugg, who are also, respectively, our research overlord and music overlord. Our associate producer is Tory Smith, who is our other overlord.

Nick Dooley is our technical director. Additional editing by Whitney Donaldson. Special thanks to Alison Cohen, Dan Welsh, Ben Ryzack, Sara Joyner, Nicki Stein, Olivia Canny, and Kelsey Albright.

Hey, thank you so much for listening, and if you’re enjoying the show, please leave a rating or review. My mom will call you each personally and thank you, and we’ll see you all next week.