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Mary Cybulski/Cinemax
Mary Cybulski/Cinemax

Interview: Dr. Stanley Burns, The Knick's Medical Advisor

Mary Cybulski/Cinemax
Mary Cybulski/Cinemax

Dr. Stanley Burns is the medical advisor for The Knick, a medical drama starring Clive Owen and directed by Steven Soderbergh. He's also curator of an encyclopedic archive of historical medical photography; this comes in handy because the show is set in 1900, and is all about period details. mental_floss interviewed Burns about his role on the show and some quirks of medical history. First up, here's a brief preview to give you a taste of what the show is like (note, some surgical gore and mild early-episode spoilers are here):

Where to watch The Knick: Fridays at 10pm on Cinemax. You can catch up on clips on The Knick's website.

On Historic Medical Photography

Chris Higgins: Can you talk to me a little bit about what The Burns Archive is and what led you to start it?

Dr. Stanley Burns: Well, I was always a historian and when I discovered the value of the photographic and historic documents in 1975, I aggressively collected photographs. My original photography is The Burns Collection and The Burns Archive are the copy prints and the other paraphernalia related to my collections. And I've used that over the last almost 40 years, to write and work with the media, and create documents. It's basically a collection of medical photography, memorial photography, and historic documentary photography. As I tell everyone, there is no art, music, or sports in there, because all the other institutions have that.

Higgins: You were—and are, I suppose—an ophthalmologist, is that right?

Dr. Burns: Yes, I am. I still practice. I have a big day tomorrow in the office. I don't do major surgery anymore, I just don't have the time for that.

His Role in The Knick

Higgins: Right. So, let's get into The Knick. As a medical advisor to the show you have an unusual job. How does that job work? I mean, what do you do? Are you there on set during shooting, are you reading scripts and giving notes?

Dr. Burns: Yes, I'm on set. I was on set from three to five days a week. Certainly for all of the medical episodes when medical things of interest, all the surgeries [take place]. [Before shooting,] Michael [Begler] and Jack [Amiel] and Steven Soderbergh came to me with their pilot and they spent some time here and realized the treasure trove, the Tutankhamun Tomb of early medical photography that's here—and the stories. Remember, I had written 44 photographic historic textbooks. At least 40 of them are on medical photo history and I've written over 1,100 articles in medical photographic history. So, this is the work I've been doing and continue to do. My next book comes out in November, it's called Stiffs, Skulls & Skeletons: Medical Photography and Symbolism. [...]

Higgins: I've seen the video that shows you giving a tour of the collection and putting it in context. It is massive.

Dr. Burns: Well, I have about a million photographs and probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 80,000 good medical photographs, but it's also supplemented, which is what makes the writing and the research easy, by the major textbooks of the time period and the journals of the time period. So for instance, I have all the issues from 1880 to about 1930 of the Annals of Surgery, the Archives of Surgery, the International Journal of Surgery, and the Synopsis of Surgery. So, I have the original articles that these great doctors wrote on their great cases and also a lot of the great articles they wrote on their foibles, the things that went wrong. And so, you'll see both aspects in the show.

Organizing a Million Photos

Higgins: How do you keep all this stuff organized? Is there a database or some sort of taxonomic system?

Dr. Burns: Well, no, it's in my head. But see, every time we do a book, then that subject gets organized, it gets scanned, it gets numbered, labeled. So that as far as Stiffs, Skulls & Skeletons are concerned, the book will have 450 photographs, but in order to produce that we've scanned about somewhere between 2,500 and 3,000 images from which we edit it down.

Higgins: Right on.

Dr. Burns: So, each time I do a book the subject matter gets scanned and localized. Put in a box and put up on a shelf until it's called for.

Recreating Period Props

Props (before surgery) / Mary Cybulski/Cinemax

Higgins: So, when you talk about folks coming through to do a production like this, are there set designers, costumers, looking at things to find period details and such?

Dr. Burns: Yeah. Well, we work with all of them. And I tell you it was a thrill, because everyone was so professional. For instance, if we had a rusty instrument, but it was important you can't have [an] instrument made in 1900 that's rusty, they'd make a new one. [...] Probably the most amazing thing [the prop people] created were Lister's antiseptic vaporizers. This is an essential part of surgery of the era and they're very expensive machines, if you can find an original one, which they did and then they accurately reproduced it, because they needed four or six of them in the operating rooms. And so, that went on throughout the entire show.

[... For one episode], they had to cool someone's head and I had in my photograph collection one of the early 1900 devices or 1890 devices that consisted of a cap with a rubber tube running around it for which they'd put cold water in with multiple layers of rubber tube. It looked like a little coil, and I would show them the picture and I worked with them and out came a hat from 1895.

Higgins: That's awesome.

Dr. Burns: But that's really a good example. And another example: [...] I said, "You know, you really need this certain neurological condition that this baby has. You really should show that, because that's really a dramatic exposé of what it meant to have this condition." And they produced it. I gave them the pictures, they sent it away to...I think it was done in California where they have the latex labs, because I think there's only one here [in New York], so most of the latex and the models came from California, and so, they made it. And that to me was the most amazing aspect of this show, other than the Lister atomizers, because they made an animatronic person, but that exhibited the medical maladies that I wanted it to. So, it was kind of strange to see that, but as a medical historian it was kind of wonderful to see that it was produced so accurately.

Reorganizing the Operating Theater

The Knick's Operating Theater / Mary Cybulski/Cinemax

Higgins: Are there any memorable moments where you had to step in, either in the writing phase or in the room, and suggest that something be changed to make it more accurate?

Dr. Burns: Oh, yeah. That happened on the very first day. [...] I walked into the operating room and I looked at the audience, they had already seated about a hundred distinguished doctors and they were about to operate and I said, "Steven, this is wrong." [It] was something like the fact that if Martin Scorsese and Steven Spielberg invited you to direct a movie he wouldn't put you in the back row. And so, likewise in medicine. In the front row would be the old distinguished doctors and the next row would be the associate professors and assistant professors, et cetera. So, what they did is they had to spend the time to reorder the entire audience [...]. They were shifting beards, hairs, and lookalikes, depending on how the film was going to be shot.

But of course I only had to do that once, because they knew afterwards what to do and they just shuffled the older doctors in the first row and the young doctors were all the way on top.

The Knickerbocker Hospital Medical School

Higgins: I gather from reading other interviews that you had to train the actors in the basics of suturing and some surgical procedures. What was that like?

Dr. Burns: Well, for me it was a lot fun. First of all we created the Knickerbocker Hospital Medical School, where I [taught] my medical students, which consisted of all the actors, including Clive [Owen]. He had a couple of extra lessons, because he really wanted to learn. I showed them the procedures, I had books that showed step-by-step the operative techniques, and most importantly I taught them how to place sutures in operative wounds. We did that because the prop department provided us with latex arms that were very realistic and I had the needle holders and needles. And so, I taught the actors how to do a mattress suture, continuous running sutures, and subcuticular sutures. I taught them how to tie with their hands very quickly as you will see onscreen as a surgeon does till this day.

I taught them how to use hemostats, which are these little clamp-like devices that we closed off blood vessels. And I showed them pictures of one procedure where there were over a hundred hemostats in this relatively small wound.

Just as a sidebar, that was one of the great accomplishments of William Halsted, whom Thackery's character is modeled after. Halsted taught people how to be delicate with tissue and how, if you want to have a great result to your surgery it had to be a bloodless surgery, that if you left pools of blood inside it would usually attract bacteria. And so, the hemostat was really an important advent of the time. [...] I taught my students how to hold a hemostat on the second finger of the hand and how to be able to tie or hold a scalpel to make a cut, while holding the hemostat in that second finger and then swing it around, open it to clamp the blood vessel and then go back to doing their stuff, and they loved it.

And one comment was, [...] of all the things they learned during the show, this would probably hold in the greatest stead throughout their entire lives, because they felt confident. They'd say, "Well, if I came across an accident or if I had to suture someone up now, I know how to do it." And this was a general comment right across the board and it is something great to learn, how to be able to put stitches in and take stitches and do all that.

Dr. Burns and Clive Owen on set / Mary Cybulski/Cinemax

Higgins: That is excellent.

Dr. Burns: Oh, the one other thing I should tell you. They were so attentive and so serious, more than medical students! [...] If you learn it and you don't do it right if you're a medical student, you'll do it again the next time or you'll learn next week. But when you're filming you get this one chance and you better look good. And so they all strove, not to look good, but to look great, and they did. And I'd let Clive suture me up. I mean, these guys know how to do it. This was their expertise, this one little aspect in medicine.

Scrubbing In

Higgins: So, a couple of specific questions that came up while watching. I've seen the first seven episodes. So, by 1900 the germ theory is well established and we see things like surgeons scrubbing in. One thing that jumped out at me in the first minutes of the first episode is seeing doctors dipping their hands and beards into a series of bowls of liquid—

Dr. Burns: Right.

Higgins: I'm curious—what is that liquid and why are there three tubs of it?

Dr. Burns: Well, there are three liquids used. One was an acidic solution to sterilize the hand, carbolic acid was another weak solution. Then there was a potassium permanganate solution, which colored the hands, which all sterilized. And then there was a washing solution. And the point was to get rid of germs and this was a good technique at the time.

How Doctors Became Addicts

Higgins: Now, we also see several doctors addicted to cocaine and other substances. I'm wondering if you have a sense...how common was this for doctors in 1900 to be hooked on cocaine and opiates?

Dr. Burns: Well, it was common, but not for the reasons that you think. It was common because this was an era when doctors experimented on themselves. [...] I always talk about the great neurologist Henry Head, who cut his own nervesand of course he would have a permanent defect afterwardsto find out what innervation was and what it was like.

And Halsted again, who the [Dr. John Thackery] character is modeled after, was one who developed infiltrative anesthesia, that is injecting cocaine locally, to be able to operate without giving general anesthesia. They practiced on themselves and they didn't know the side effects of all these drugs. One of Halsted's [colleagues], a close associate when he was practicing in New York before he went to Hopkins, died. Halsted's effect was the fact that he became a cocaine addict. And I know during his tenure at Johns Hopkins when William Henry Welch was the head of the institution would try to take [Halsted] on his boat during the summer to somehow make him break the habit. But I think [Halsted] was an addict until he died and I think ultimately he became a morphine addict.

Cadavers vs. 3D

Clive Owen (Thack) contemplates a pig / Mary Cybulski/Cinemax

Higgins: Can you talk a little about the problems obtaining cadavers in 1900? We see this a lot in the show—the use of pigs and other sort of substitutes.

Dr. Burns: Well, doctors did need to get cadavers and there was a short supply of cadavers. They used to get them from Potter's Fieldunclaimed bodies. And this had always been a problem because as medical institutions proliferated you needed more cadavers. It became almost an auction and who you knew. Stiffs, Skulls & Skeletons actually addresses this [...].

What's happening today is they're actually using, in some medical schools, three-dimensional models and stereography and interactive models to do dissections. It's not the same as going into an old-fashioned room and smelling the body, but the way medicine's going today for a lot of people this may work. [Encountering a cadaver] used to be one of the obstacles to becoming a physician to try to get through your first year anatomy course. But that was a problem, grave robbing was a problem, but most of that in New York State was really done with at that time, it was just a matter of where you could steal the unidentified bodies from.

Higgins: Also in an early episode we see some interesting photos of medical oddities, we see those briefly during a burglary. Are those from your collection?

Dr. Burns: Yes. All the photographs used are from my collection. They have 80,000 real great ones, it was just a matter of choice about which ones they would use for that particular scene, and I think they used some of my favorites. Living with this stuff every day, writing and doing work so we picked some great ones, and I think they chose some great ones what they wanted to show.

Early X-Rays


Clive Owen (Thack) with an x-ray / Mary Cybulski/Cinemax

Higgins: At one point we see an early X-ray machine. Can you talk about how useful this would be and how dangerous it might have been?

Dr. Burns: How dangerous? Okay. The X-ray was discovered in November...I think, November 8, 1895 by Rӧntgen, a physicist in Germany. It was one of the few inventions that was instantly accepted medically, it went around the world. By March of 1896 people were publishing papers on the medical use of the X-ray and it was not very powerful. And again, let's talk about the cocaine, this is really the worst example of doctors not knowing the effect. Edison, who of course was a great electrical scientist of the erabecause you need electricity to run the machinerecognized that his hands were getting red, so he had his assistant [Clarence] Dally doing all the X-rays and the fluoroscopies, and Dally was dead by 1904. I think he had only been working on it for about seven or eight years and what happens is the doctor's fingers were falling off, they were getting squamous cell carcinoma, and a whole bunch of other carcinomas from exposure to the X-ray. An X-ray of the abdomen for instance in 1900 was over 45 minutes.

In the Spanish-American War there was this great woman radiologist in San Francisco who took photographs of the soldiers, of the bullets, it was really the major exposé of war injuries that was published, this Spanish-American War book, with these early X-rays. And she died also about 1904. So it was extraordinarily dangerous both for the doctor and for the patient.

But the X-ray opened up dramatic fields. For instance, by 1901 it was routine to treat skin cancers with X-rays, as well as the dreaded condition Lupus Vulgaris, which is tuberculosis of the face. And as I said, this time period was when these inventions...all the great inventions of medicine were put into practical use. It was a time, as I always explain, that the chest, the head, and the abdomen became the playground of the surgeon. They were able to operate within those organs for the first time and heal patients successfully, operate on the brain and the heart. The first heart suturing was being done at that time.

The Burns Archive

Higgins: So getting back to The Burns Archive. Is the Archive something that people can visit?

Dr. Burns: Not really, we're working. We can't have people coming through here when I'm talking and Elizabeth's writing. We work in there all the time. [...] The public gets to see our materials via our books and our website [...] But we do have researchers come all the time.

About 20 years ago we were open to the public and we were listed among the unusual museums of New York City, but we're just dancing as fast as we can. There are only four of us here and lots of stuff to do and we produce more than most museums with the number of exhibits, books, and other things that we do.

Historical Perspective in Medicine

Dr. Burns: One of the statements I say to everyone I meet, just so you get the correct idea about these doctors, is that these doctors from 1900 and the doctors from 1700 and 1800 are just as smart as you and I, just as innovative, just as genius. The problem is they labored under inferior knowledge in technology and all they tried to do was help and heal. They did the best they could, but the advance of medicine and technology is so great that a hundred years later a lot of the stuff looks foolish and you're wondering why a patient would put up with it. And what we're doing today will be looked at, I'm sure, a hundred years from now the same way.

Where to watch The Knick: Fridays at 10pm on Cinemax. You can catch up on clips on The Knick's website.

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8 Allegedly Cursed Places
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Some of the most picturesque spots in the world hide legends of a curse. Castles, islands, rivers, and more have supposedly suffered spooky misfortunes as the result of a muttered hex cast after a perceived slight—whether it's by a maligned monk or a mischievous pirate. Below are eight such (allegedly) unfortunate locations.

1. A WALL FROM MARGAM ABBEY // WALES

An 800-year-old ruined wall stands on the grounds of a large steelworks in Port Talbot, Wales. The wall is surrounded by a fence and held up by a number of brick buttresses—all because of an ancient curse. The story goes that when King Henry VIII dissolved the monasteries in the 16th century, one of the local Cistercian monks evicted from Margam Abbey told the new owners of the site, in a bid to protect it, that if the wall fell, the entire town would fall with it (it's unclear why he would focus on that particular part of the structure). Since then, the townsfolk have tried hard to protect the wall, even as an enormous steelworks was built around it. Rumors abound that the hex-giving monk still haunts the site in a red habit, keeping an eye on his precious wall.

2. ALLOA TOWER // SCOTLAND

Alloa tower in Scotland
HARTLEPOOLMARINA2014, Wikimedia // CC BY-SA 4.0

Alloa Tower in Clackmannanshire, Scotland, has reportedly been subject to a curse for hundreds of years. In the 16th century, the Earl of Mar is said to have destroyed the local Cambuskenneth Abbey and taken the stones to build his new palace. The Abbot of Cambuskenneth was so furious he supposedly cast a multi-part curse on the Erskine family—ominously known as “The Doom of Mar." It is said that at least part of the curse has come true over the years, including that three of the children of the Mar family would “never see the light” (three of the earl’s ancestors’ offspring were reportedly born blind). The curse also supposedly predicted that the house would burn down, which occurred in 1800. Another part of the curse: The house would lay in ruins until an ash sapling grew from its roof. Sure enough, around 1820 a sapling was seen sprouting from the roof, and since then the family curse is said to have been lifted.

3. A WORKERS' CEMETERY // EGYPT

In the fall of 2017, archeologists reopened an almost-4500-year-old tomb complex in Giza, Egypt, that contains the remains of hundreds of workers who built the great Pyramid of Giza. The tomb also contains the remains of the supervisor of the workers, who is believed to have added curses to the cemetery to protect it from thieves. One such curse reads: "All people who enter this tomb who will make evil against this tomb and destroy it, may the crocodile be against them in water and snakes against them on land. May the hippopotamus be against them in water, the scorpion against them on land." The complex is now open to the public—who may or may not want to take their chances.

4. RUINS OF THE CHATEAU DE ROCCA SPARVIERA // FRANCE

A chateau just north of the French Riviera may sound like a delightful place to be, but amid the ruins of the Chateau de Rocca-Sparviera—the Castle of the Sparrow-Hawk—lies a disturbing legend. The tale centers around a medieval French queen named Jeanne, who supposedly fled to the castle after her husband was killed. She arrived with two young sons and a monk known to enjoy his drink. One Christmas, she went into the village to hear a midnight mass, and when she returned, she found that the monk had killed her sons in a drunken rage. (In another version of the story, she was served a banquet of her own children, which she unknowingly ate.) According to legend, Jeanne then cursed the castle, saying a bird would never sing nearby. To this day, some travelers report that the ruins are surrounded by an eerie silence.

5. THE PEBBLES OF KOH HINGHAM // THAILAND

Stopped off at a small uninhabited island that, according to Thai mythology, is cursed by the god Tarutao. If anyone dared to even take one pebble off this island they would be forever cursed! 😈 I heard from a local that every year the National Park office receive many stones back via mail from people who want to lift the curse! I was never much of a stone collector anyway... ☻☹☻☹☻ #thailand #kohlanta #kohlipe #kohhingham #islandhopping #islandlife #beachlife #pebbles #beach #speedboat #travelgram #instatraveling #wanderlust #exploringtheglobe #exploretocreate #traveleverywhere #aroundtheworld #exploringtheglobe #travelawesome #wanderer #earth_escape #natgeotravel #serialtraveler #awesomesauce #picoftheday #photooftheday #potd

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The tiny uninhabited island of Koh Hingham, off the coast of Thailand, is blessed with a covering of precious black stones. The stones are not precious because they contain anything valuable in a monetary sense, but because according to Thai mythology the god Tarutao made them so. Tarutao is said to have invoked a curse upon anyone who takes a stone off the island. As a result, every year the national park office that manages the island receives packages from all over the world, sent by tourists returning the stones and attempting to rid themselves of bad luck.

6. INITIALS OUTSIDE THE CHAPEL AT ST. ANDREWS UNIVERSITY // SCOTLAND

The "cursed" PH stones of St. Andrews University
Nuwandalice, Flickr // CC BY-NC-ND 2.0

The initials PH are paved into the ground outside St. Salvator’s Chapel at St. Andrews University in Scotland. They mark the spot where 24-year-old preacher and faculty member Patrick Hamilton was burned at the stake for heresy in 1528—an early trigger of the Scottish Reformation. The location is therefore supposed to be cursed, and it is said that any student who stands on the initials is doomed to fail their exams. As a result of this superstition, after graduation day many students purposefully go back to stand on the spot now that all danger of failure has passed.

7. CHARLES ISLAND // CONNECTICUT

Charles Island, Connecticut
Michael Shaheen, Flickr // CC BY-NC-ND 2.0

Charles Island lies off the coast of Milford, Connecticut, and is accessible from the mainland via a sandbar when the tide is low. Today it's home to a peaceful nature reserve for local birds, but its long history supposedly includes three curses. The first is said to have been cast in 1639 by the chief of the Paugussett tribe, after the nation was driven off the land by settlers—the chief supposedly cursed any building erected on the land. The second was supposedly laid in 1699 when the pirate Captain William Kidd stopped by the island to bury his booty and protected it with a curse. Shortly afterward, Kidd was caught and executed for his crimes—taking the location of his treasure to his grave.

The third curse is said to have come all the way from Mexico. In 1525, Mexican emperor Guatimozin was tortured by Spaniards hoping to locate Aztec treasure, but he refused to give up its whereabouts. In 1721, a group of sailors from Connecticut supposedly stumbled across the Aztec loot hidden in a cave in Mexico. After an unfortunate journey home in which disaster after disaster slowly depleted the crew, the sole surviving sailor reportedly landed on Charles Island, where he buried the cursed treasure in the hope of negating its hex.

8. THE GHOST TOWN OF BODIE // CALIFORNIA

A house in Bodie, California
Jim Bahn, Flickr // CC BY 2.0

Bodie, in California's Sierra Nevadas, sprang up as a result of the gold rush. The town boomed in the late 19th century, with a population nearing 10,000 people. But as the gold seams ran dry, Bodie began a slow and steady decline, hastened by a series of devastating fires. By the 1950s, the place had become a ghost town, and in 1962 it was designated a State Historic Park, with the the buildings kept in a state of “arrested decay." Bodie's sad history has encouraged rumors of a curse, and many visitors to the site who have picked up an abandoned souvenir have reportedly been dogged with bad luck. So much so, the Bodie museum displays numerous letters from tourists who have sent back pilfered booty in the hope of breaking their run of ill fortune.

But the curse didn't start with prospectors or spooked visitors. The rumor apparently originated from rangers at the park, who hoped that the story would prevent visitors from continuing to steal items. In one sense the story worked, since many people are now too scared to pocket artifacts from the site; in another, the rangers have just succeeded in increasing their workload, as they now receive letter after letter expressing regret for taking an item and reporting on the bad luck it caused—further reinforcing the idea of the Bodie curse.

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21 Other Royal Babies Born In The Last 20 Years
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by Kenny Hemphill

At 11:01 a.m. on April 23, 2018, the Royal Family got a new member when it was announced that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have welcomed their third child, a (yet-to-be-named) boy, who will become fifth in line to the throne. While William and Kate's three children may be the youngsters closest to the throne, they're not the only pint-sized descendants of Queen Elizabeth II to be born in the past 20 years. Here are 21 more of them.

1. ARTHUR CHATTO

Arthur Robert Nathaniel Chatto, who turned 19 years old February 5, is the younger son of Lady Sarah and Daniel Chatto. He is 23rd in the line of succession—and has been raising some royal eyebrows with his penchant for Instagram selfies.

2. CHARLES ARMSTRONG-JONES, VISCOUNT LINLEY

The grandson of Lord Snowden and Princess Margaret, and son of the 2nd Earl and Countess of Snowdon, Charles—who was born on July 1, 1999—is the heir apparent to the Earldom of Snowdon.

3. LADY MARGARITA ARMSTRONG-JONES

Britain's Queen Elizabeth II (R) speaks to Serena Armstrong-Jones, Countess of Snowdon (L), David Armstrong-Jones (2L), 2nd Earl of Snowdon, and Lady Margarita Armstrong-Jones (2R).
JUSTIN TALLIS/AFP/Getty Images

Born on May 14, 2002, Lady Margarita is sister to Charles Armstrong-Jones, and great-niece to the Queen. She's 20th in line to the throne.

4. LADY LOUISE WINDSOR

Lady Louise Windsor is the eldest child and only daughter of Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, and Sophie, Countess of Wessex. She was born on November 8, 2003 and is 11th in line for the throne.

5. ELOISE TAYLOR

The third child of Lady Helen and Timothy Taylor, Eloise Olivia Katherine Taylor was born on March 2, 2003 and is 43rd in line for the throne.

6. ESTELLA TAYLOR

Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge chats to Estella Taylor on the balcony during Trooping the Colour - Queen Elizabeth II's Birthday Parade, at The Royal Horseguards on June 14, 2014 in London, England
Chris Jackson/Getty Images

Eloise's younger sister, Estella Olga Elizabeth Taylor, was born on December 21, 2004. She is the youngest of the four Taylor children and is 44th in succession.

7. JAMES, VISCOUNT SEVERN

The younger child of Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, and Sophie, Countess of Wessex, James Alexander Philip Theo Mountbatten-Windsor—or Viscount Severn—was born on December 17, 2007 and is 10th in line for the throne.

8. ALBERT WINDSOR

Albert Louis Philip Edward Windsor, born September 22, 2007, is notable for being the first royal baby to be baptized a Catholic since 1688. He is the son of Lord and Lady Nicholas Windsor, and grandson of the Duke and Duchess of Kent. According to the Act of Settlement, which was passed in 1701, being baptized Catholic would automatically exclude a potential royal from the line of succession. But there was some controversy surrounding this when, up until 2015, the Royal Family website included Albert.

9. XAN WINDSOR

Lord Culloden, Xan Richard Anders Windsor, is son to the Earl of Ulster and Claire Booth, and grandson of the Duke of Gloucester. He was born on March 2, 2007 and is 26th in succession.

10. LEOPOLD WINDSOR

Like his older brother Albert, Leopold Windsor—who was born on September 8, 2009—is not in line to the throne, by virtue of being baptized a Roman Catholic (though he, too, was listed on the Royal Family's website for a time).

11. SAVANNAH PHILLIPS

Autumn Phillips, Isla Phillips, Peter Philips and Savannah Phillips attend Christmas Day Church service at Church of St Mary Magdalene on December 25, 2017 in King's Lynn, England
Chris Jackson/Getty Images

Savannah Anne Kathleen Phillips, the Queen's first great-grandchild, was born on December 29, 2010 to Peter Phillips, son of Princess Anne and Mark Phillips, and Autumn Kelly. She is 14th in line for the throne.

12. SENNA LEWIS

Senna Kowhai Lewis, who was born on June 2, 2010, is the daughter of Gary and Lady Davina Lewis, elder daughter of Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester. She was a beneficiary of the Succession to the Crown Act 2013, which abolished the practice of giving sons precedence over daughters in the line of succession, regardless of when they are born. As a result, she is 29th in succession.

13. LYLA GILMAN

Daughter of Lady Rose and George Gilman, and granddaughter of Prince Richard, 2nd Duke of Gloucester, Lyla Beatrix Christabel Gilman was born on May 30, 2010. She is 32nd in succession.

14. COSIMA WINDSOR

Lady Cosima Rose Alexandra Windsor was born on May 20, 2010. She is sister to Lord Culloden, daughter of the Earl of Ulster and Claire Booth, and granddaughter to the Duke of Gloucester. She's 27th in line for the throne.

15. RUFUS GILMAN

Lyla Gilman's brother, Rufus, born in October 2012, is 33rd in line for the throne.

16. TĀNE LEWIS

Tāne Mahuta Lewis, Senna's brother, was named after a giant kauri tree in the Waipoua Forest of the Northland region of New Zealand. He was born on May 25, 2012 and is 30th in line for the throne, following the Succession to the Crown Act 2013.

17. ISLA PHILLIPS

Princess Anne, Princess Royal, Isla Phillips and Peter Phillips attend a Christmas Day church service
Chris Jackson/Getty Images

Peter and Autumn Phillips's second and youngest daughter, Isla Elizabeth Phillips, was born on March 29, 2012 and is 15th in succession.

18. MAUD WINDSOR

Maud Elizabeth Daphne Marina Windsor, the daughter of Lord Frederick and Lady Sophie of Windsor and granddaughter of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, was born on August 15, 2013 and is 47th in line for the throne.

19. LOUIS WINDSOR

Louis Arthur Nicholas Felix Windsor, who was born on May 27, 2014, is the youngest child of Lord and Lady Nicholas Windsor, and brother of Leopold and Albert. As he was baptized into the Roman Catholic church, he's not in line to the throne.

20. MIA GRACE TINDALL

Mike Tindall, Zara Tindall and their daughter Mia Tindall pose for a photograph during day three of The Big Feastival at Alex James' Farm on August 28, 2016 in Kingham, Oxfordshire.
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Daughter of Zara Phillips and her husband, former England rugby player Mike Tindall, Mia Grace Tindall was born on January 17, 2014 and is 17th in the line of succession.

21. ISABELLA WINDSOR

Isabella Alexandra May, the second and youngest daughter of Lord Frederick and Lady Sophie of Windsor, was the last addition to the royal family. In July 2016, she was christened at Kensington Palace wearing the same gown worn by both Prince George and Princess Charlotte (it's a replica of the one that Queen Victoria's children wore). Looking on was celebrity chef Jamie Oliver, who is one of Isabella's godparents.

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